This post is a Transcript from our Wednesday afternoon webcast with VeVe Lane, Keri Spectrum, Cat Wily, Kinzie Fire, Michi Moon. The video of the 33-minute long webcast has been embedded here too for the sake of completeness. But if you'd more in the mood for reading, check out the transcript below.
Topic Discussion: "Newcomer Experiences"
VeVe: OK, it says it's live. Ok, reload that page. That's been muted to create no feedback, and we're good. All right! Hello everyone! We are beginning promptly on time I think for the first time in our webcast history, go us!
Topic Discussion: "Newcomer Experiences"
VeVe: OK, it says it's live. Ok, reload that page. That's been muted to create no feedback, and we're good. All right! Hello everyone! We are beginning promptly on time I think for the first time in our webcast history, go us!
VeVe: Wait what? Yeah! Keri's here too. No technical difficulties have happened yet. I'm enjoying it while it lasts. We're welcoming Cat Wily and Kinzie Fire and -- Keri, have Michi say hi too --
VeVe: And Michi Moon! Some new ladies on the wrestling scene here, and we're doing a webcast on "newcomers' experiences."
Kinzie: You made that sound so foreboding.
VeVe: Or Newcomers' Experiences Yay!
Keri: Hip, hip, hooray!
VeVe: Let's have everybody introduce themselves to start with. New folks, who wants to go first?
Cat: I'm Cat Wily, I'm from right here, hometown New York City, really excited to be having some matches with doom maidens. and yeah, hi everybody
Kinzie: Hi, I'm Kinzie Fire, from New York City as well. super excited to be doing this. I've done two matches so far, and I'm looking forward to our match [Kinzie vs Cat Wily] right after this, and a few more coming up.
Keri: Yeah. We're excited too. What kind of match are you going to be having after this?
Keri: Well, duh. But what kind of competitive match?
Cat: I'm not sure, what does that exactly mean? That's an interesting question...
VeVe: Well, I believe the conditions for this are going to be three 6-minute rounds, general submissions are allowed, most submissions wins, and anything else is going to be determined by you two. What kind? Can be - what's your style, what's your favorite move, how mean are you...
Keri: What kind of submissions are you training them in right now, VeVe?
VeVe: Let's see. Let's have you guys answer that. What are your favorite submissions so far?
Cat: Favorite submissions. I actually really like the crucifix submission. It often times comes unexpected to my opponent. and it can actually be pretty easy to execute and finish --
Keri: Why do you think it's easy?
Cat: Why do I think it's easy? Cause it's easy to get off of someone's back while you have side control. All you have to do is grab a leg and roll them over. I guess maybe it has to do with a power thing. Maybe I have a little more strength in my legs. But every time I go for this submission, it always works. Even in training outside. I do a little more training than what we do here. And it's even been successful with me on a jiujitsu brown belt. So, it seems to really be effective for people who don't see it coming. It's not conventional, but I like it a lot.
Keri: Ok. Cool. And you -- what about you, miss?
Kinzie: I like a lot of stuff coming off of the kimura grip and a lot of submissions with the arms. and I had a lot of luck with scissors in my last match with Hanz, so I'm sticking with it. If it works, I'll do it.
Keri: Are you talking like body scissors, head scissors...?
VeVe: We had a fun moment with everybody's training where we did the classic jiujitsu thing, teach everything but scissors. and then it was Hanz , actually, who shook things come, came in did some matches with some newcomers and did all these man scissors on everybody. So, all right on everyone, scissors, we have to address them! You do need to know them, both doing them and escaping them.
Cat: Talking about body scissors. My first competitive match was with Adrian. And just like VeVe said. I'd wrestled on the underground scene a little bit before hooking up with Doom. So, it was part of my repertoire, but then when I started hanging out with these jiujitsu professionals, I kind of let it go, and I forgot all about them. And literally, the day before my match with Adrian, we did a really brief training on escaping the scissors, but it didn't really incorporate back into my training plan and my repertoire. And, I just got destroyed by the scissors.
Keri: I was gonna say, the worst thing you can do when coming into underground wrestling is forget about the scissors.
Cat: I got destroyed. I got demolished. My ribs hurt for 6 weeks, no lie, no joke. It was really hard to train after that. But it's part of the game, I learned my lesson. And I'm really hopeful that if Kinzie tries to execute some scissors on my today, I'm gonna take care of that.
VeVe: My recommendation would be attempt the head scissors over the body scissors
Kinzie: Yeah, I might have more of a chance there.
Keri: Are you reffing this, VeVe?
VeVe: I'm time keeping. I hope to not have to ref. I usually refrain my reffing to Oh my god, don't hurt the wall. Or go through it. Otherwise, play amongst yourselves.
Keri: I know, that's me too. I'm constantly worrying about damage to my wall. That's a huge problem for me. All about the wall. We never want to fix our walls, so do not hit them, ok, don't.
VeVe: Well, it's it's between hurting your opponent and putting a hole in the wall, you can put a hole in the wall, but ideally --
Keri: Oh, no, I don't think that. No. Hurt your opponent.
VeVe: Ok, so, Keri and I can talk all day, but want to hear the new folks talk. I'm going to ask both of you, and Michi to, what has been, what got you into doing this. I'm super glad you joined up, but why did you do it?
Cat: I'll start. I've been wrestling playfully with friends at parties for a few years. It's always been an interest of mine from way back, for as long as I can remember, into adulthood. Just enjoyed watching a lot of MMA on TV, and wrestling, not too much pro-style wrestling, but real rumbling. And I remember a couple of years ago, actually, I met Hanz, Hanz Vanderkill, at a wrestling party here in New York City. And he just saw me raising some ruckus on the mat with my friends, and he came over and he's like, hey you should meet up with this group Doom Maidens, I know them, they do training once a week. And it just didn't line up at the time. It was on a day I just wasn't available. And a few months ago, I just happened to see something about Doom about some practice they had going on. And I just showed up, and I've just been rolling with them ever since. I just really like the rough body play. It's more than just having fun on the mat, you know, I've learned so much about body awareness and respect for people. It's a really humbling experience. And as long as I am physically able to and young enough to, I will be rolling with these guys, or, you know I'll probably pretty much take on any match. So, that's kind of what got me into it, that's what's keeping me here. And I'm having a lot of fun, everyone I've met has been really great and warm and welcoming, and I feel really fortunate to be hanging out with this group.
Kinzie: So, I don't have as much history with wrestling as you do. I always kind of enjoyed it just playing around with people I hang out with and stuff, just for fun, rough and tumble struggle play, wrestling type stuff. But I was always kind of at a size and strength disadvantage. So I saw some information about your trainings, and I thought, that's relevant, and I can start winning, which would be great. So, I showed up at one of the trainings, you guys are super rad, and I just kept coming. And I stuck around, yeah, it was a lot of fun. And you guys talked about doing videos, and that's super awesome. So, yeah.
VeVe: I remember I started training in wrestling too cause I was like I like everything about this except the losing part, so let me just figure out how to stop doing that. That got me started hardcore at a certain point. Michi! We forgot to ask you your favorite submission too, so I have two questions: why did you start this and what is your favorite submission?
Michi: Actually, I started cause of you [points to VeVe], you right there, right in the middle. She introduced me to a world I never thought existed. And I was like, holy crap this is hot, I have to do this, this is my calling. And then you guys told me, all right, let's do X, Y, and Z, and then introduced me to Keri, and Keri lives like 5 minutes down the road, so I've kinda been bothering Keri every day since.
VeVe: I wanted to ask you -- cause we wanted to connect the two of you, yeah, Michi, we've only gotten to have you over to use twice cause you're just not as nearby -- how are you and Keri getting on? What have you been up to?
Michi: Getting on a lot [Keri headlocks Michi]
Keri: It took us a while to actually connect our schedules.
Michi: It gets kind of intense.
Keri: The past month or so we've been able to work a lot together and, you know, we're starting to train together. We get along really well, and it's been a lot of fun.
Michi: Yeah, she doesn't mind I look like a chia pet.
VeVe: Before or after wrestling? Because after wrestling [gestures to hair puffing up] a lot of people have that problem.
Michi: You've seen it. It gets kind of untameable, once in a while. I squirm a lot. So, one of these days. [fight gestures at Keri] Oh, my favorite submission.
Keri: What's your favorite submission? Like, what hold do you like to use?
Michi: To tap somebody out? Triangle. Flying triangle? Besides that...
Keri: A flying triangle, somebody your height, your agility...
Michi: I'm a fucking ninja.
VeVe: I totally want to see you flying triangle somebody, as long as it's not me.
Cat: What is a flying triangle?
Keri: All right? Who wants to do the flying triangle? This bitch. This bitch with the flying triangle. I'll try.
Cat: I'll take a flying triangle. I want to feel that.
VeVe: Ok, so after...
Keri: Let's just see the flying triangle...
Keri: Jesus christ. Flying armbars and triangles over here in New Jersey, everyone.
Michi: The crucifix ends on that, though. That. I might have a lot of trouble. Like. No? No? [Keri shakes head] Doesn't work? Ok. I'll shut up. Ok, no more chokes [laughing]
VeVe: So, Keri, we're responsible for keeping these hooligans on track. You have to ask them an interview question now.
Keri: Ok! So, ladies, let's say that you get told that you are challenged to a catfight. Would you be ok with hairpulling, face slapping, and body punching in a match?
Cat: Heck yeah. That means I get to punch back? Absolutely.
Keri: Do you think that's an actual fighting style, or do you think that's just insulting as a competitor?
Kinzie: If it's prearranged and it's a style you're fighting in, yeah, it's a fighting style. I wouldn't say it's a traditional one or something that people train in. But if two people sit down and go hey, this is how we're gonna fight, then, sure, that's legitimate.
Keri: And what about those tactics used for submission?
Cat: I didn't hear that question -- what was it?
VeVe: Slapping and hairpulling for a submission.
Cat: Oh. Oh, interesting.
VeVe: Or body punching, for a submission.
Cat: Oh [smiles]
Kinzie: That'd be serious hairpulling.
Cat: Yeah, seriously. I don't know. I might be ok with some body punches, for sure. As a submission? Why not. Yeah. Hairpulling, I don't know...
Keri: Yeah, that can be a little rough. Like a hairpulling contest. So, that would be like where you're both standing, and you have to hairpull, and the first person to end up on the floor is the person who loses.
Cat: Well, maybe that doesn't sound so bad then.
VeVe: That sounds like whiplash. [all laugh]
Keri: So you guys are open to all different sorts of competitive fighting?
Cat & Kinzie: Pretty much, yeah.
Keri: Now, if you could come up with your favorite style of match, out of any type of match, what would it be?
Kinzie, So far, bondage.
Keri: Ok, and why is that?
Cat: I like that it incorporates some wrestling, but more just physical control, without the submissions, and of course just the rope is just so much fun --
Keri: Now is that the domination and the submission portion?
Cat: I'm missing that part of the question, what was that?
Keri: Do you like to be on the losing and the winning end?
Cat: Oh, yeah, absolutely. I don't mind getting tied up. No problem. It's fun. I just had a really impromptu match with VeVe over the weekend, and I totally got my butt kicked, but I was hysterical the whole time, because it was just so much fun, so absolutely. On either end.
Keri: I don't find it fun on either end.
VeVe: Michi, what are your thoughts? What's your favorite type of match? That you've done or would like to do ever?
Michi: I really do want to go back to the BDSM portion, just cause it is a lot of fun to try and hogtie. The one that we did with 6 girls. That's just -- I don't really see it being anything more than like I guess everybody just going after each other --
Keri: Like a multi-person match?
Michi: Yeah, like that to me is all hands down, everybody's free for all.
Keri: Like a 4-person bondage match?
Michi: We had 6. Right?
Keri: I wasn't there.
Michi: You wanna be there? We can get you there...
VeVe: Ah, that's actually... We'll discuss this off camera later, but we're trying to get it up to 8, and we'd would love for you two to both come back. Keri, we had you in one of the 4-way ones. One of the early ones.
Keri: Yeah, with Darling. And Ginary.
VeVe: That was very sexy. That was a fun time.
Keri: Yes, it was a sexy time.
VeVe: [turns to Kinzie] You said bondage was also your favorite too. What do you like about it?
Kinzie: So, I've always just liked rope, cause rope's great. But I really like that as someone who doesn't have a ton of technique under their belt, I can still have an edge and I can still win. Because it's a lot of just struggling and doing what you can to get the rope on the other person. Obviously specific wrestling techniques help, but as someone who's on my skill level, I feel like it kind of balances things out a little bit.
VeVe: That's something I've definitely noticed about the bondage wrestling. It can even the playing field a lot, between skill levels, cause it's mostly, to everybody, equally new. Almost.
Keri: So is something like pins wrestling. Have you guys considered doing that type of match?
Cat: yeah, absolutely, yeah. I actually had a domination match with Dachi not very while ago, and it was just a bunch of pins. It's great, I love using my body weight to hold people down. It happens all the time. I have a weight advantage on almost everyone I train with. That doesn't mean a strength advantage, just a weight advantage, and sometimes people have trouble dealing with that. I even have trouble dealing with it when I have other opponents who are solid muscle -- muscle is super heavy -- so when I have in the training and I'm rolling with someone who's really muscular, their body weight is tremendous for me. So, I have to take advantage of my weight and use it. So, absolutely, pins? Totally. Sounds like fun.
Keri: Do you feel like you distribute your body weight well? Like proportionately. Or is it harder for you to distribute it?
Cat: No, you know, I'm kind of both top and bottom heavy, and I don't, I'm trying to think, in just in training, I don't really like... in very seldom occasions do I feel like I roll a little further than I want to because of my lower body weight. But usually I distribute it pretty well. And as I continue to train more, my body awareness is just getting really great. So, I think it's been ok.
Kinzie: Yeah, I would say as someone who wrestles you, I don't usually feel like you're off balance or whatever if I'm trying to throw you or something.
Cat: Ah ha, throw me. [smiles]
Kinzie: The key word there was "trying." [laughing] But I never feel you have your weight heavily weighted more one way or another.
Keri: Now, when you're against somebody who's a lot smaller than you but is very lean muscle, do you feel like they use your weight against you more so, or do you feel like you have the weight advantage still?
Cat: You know, people who are smaller than me are really fast. So, there are a few of our training partners that I'm like "I need to wrestle you more" because I need to learn how to grapple with these really small, fast people who are -- you know, going back to the initial question what got me into this and my comments about not underestimating people, appearance means nothing. You can meet someone and say oh look, you're tiny, you're not even muscular, I'm gonna throw you around, and before you know it, you're rolling with them, and they're so fast, they're spinning around you, they're escaping you constantly. So, I wouldn't underestimate someone on their size. I try, absolutely, to use my weight to control them, but a lot of the time, honestly, on smaller opponents, they slip away so easy. Like even Kinzie, sometimes it's like, damn it, I can't get a hold of this girl, she keeps slipping out of my grasp, and out of my holds, you know, but it's good, it's a challenge. Those people I'm frequently saying hey, meet up with me for extra mat time, because I need to learn how to control that.
Kinzie: I'm squirmy. It's the one thing I've got going for me.
Cat: I know!
VeVe: Your foundation. You can build on squirmy. Oh, hey, let me ask new folks, who's your preferred sort of opponent or match partner? Do you like going with other new people, or do you like going with more experienced people?
Cat: [points to Kinzie] You go first.
Kinzie: Ah. I don't know. I think they both have their advantages. When I go with other new people, I feel a little more evenly matched, and like I feel like there's a chance I can win. But when I go with more advanced people, I feel like I'm pushing myself more, and they have more technique under their belt, so I'm really able to see what they're doing and try and see their plans and recognize techniques. Whereas someone at my level who's more evenly matched, they may not be using techniques that I can recognize from practice and be like "Oh, I'm about to be triangled. That's gonna suck in a second." So, they both have their advantages, plus I like getting thrown around. So, I mean, wrestling people who are better than me isn't always a bad thing. [laughs]
VeVe: Michi, what do you think?
Michi: I personally like to be submissive, but I [looks at Keri] Shut up. [all laugh].
Michi: No! It's just like -- I'd rather learn from somebody that's professional [gestures to Keri], that way -- [Keri smiles, blushes. all laugh]
Keri: [aside] I paid her. [more laughing] Go on.
Michi: It's just a great learning experience -- stop laughing at me before I smack you! [laughs] But, all in all, when you go and you do get dominant, it does feel great, but I prefer submission. [points to Keri] She doesn't believe me.
Cat: Can I answer that question?
VeVe: Yeah, answer the question.
Cat: So, I like, like Kinzie said, I like both. Because some days I feel like I really want to crush someone, so I'll just pick on someone tiny, and I'll call them out and say, ok, you showing up to training today? Great, I want you. And then other times --
VeVe: You mean Aralia.
Cat: Well, I actually would really like a competitive match with Aralia. She is getting much better. One thing that I've noticed, and I'm being very careful, I'm calling it out, she has gotten really good at framing [shows forearm]. Often times, when we practice and we train, I can just dominate and toss her around, but she's getting really great at blocking me. She's developing the razor edge forearms that VeVe has, so I'm keeping an eye out for that now, because that hurts. So, yes, Aralia, but a lot of the time, also, because I always have the challenge of other wrestlers showing up who are smaller than me, if the occasion comes and one or two people show up that are bigger, or more skilled, I will call them out, because my opinion is I have to get my ass kicked on the regular if I'm gonna improve my game. So that's why I do practice outside of the training that we do here, because I want to bring some more excitement to the mat. The fancy sexy wrestling moves, scissor holds and pins and all that is really cool, but if I can learn and gain an advantage on my opponents in other way that are more traditional wrestling / jiujitsu styles, then I definitely wanna be able to do that, so. But going back to the answer, yes, both. For very different reasons, and I'm looking forward to maybe smashing some more people. And also getting my butt kicked! Cause like Kinzie, I don't mind getting my ass kicked once in a while, I don't really have much of an ego, and I like to be humiliated, so, I'm down.
Keri: Do you guys prefer to fight women, or do you prefer to fight men competitively? What do you think is more rewarding as a win?
Cat: As a win? Definitely the mixed. Fighting men.
Cat: I don't know. I think it's a psychological, emotional thing to just be empowering and destroy them in the whole misconception of the weaker female and the stronger male. --
Keri: Bad bitch, huh? [??]
Cat: I do have a little bit of meanness. Wrestling women, I feel like I get really excited, like I have --
Keri: Oh yeah?!
Cat: yeah, it creates a lot of excitement, and gets me, like --
Keri: You wanna fight me?
Cat: Sure. Come on over. Come over. I'll take it. I'll take that match. [laughing]
VeVe: We now have you fighting both of them [gestures at Keri and Michi]
Cat: I'll just do 2-on-1 bondage. That'll be fun.
Keri: I'll lose that one.
VeVe: I will happily not participate and just watch that.
Michi: She said she wants to bring more excitement to her matches, but what is she bringing in to make it exciting?
Keri: What do you want to bring in for more excitement?
Cat: Just some of the skills that I'm learning outside of the training here.
Kinzie: So tricks that I don't know.
Keri: What's your focus right now? What are you focusing on in your training?
Cat: Escapes. Escapes and fighting off my back. And I hate to put it out there, but that's a little bit of a struggle for me, fighting off my back. Maybe it's a weight thing. Maybe it's just a body awareness thing. It could be just a strength thing. So that's really what I focus on and work on a lot in my training --
VeVe: Here's a great question for everybody: as you're coming in, being new and developing your skills, what is the thing you want to work on most, what's your biggest area you want to be improving right now?
Kinzie: I need more attacks. I'm super squirmy, and I know the defenses, and I'm getting to a point where I'm recognizing techniques, and I know what to do to get away from them and get the other person off of me, but, and I can even sometimes get the upper hand, but once I'm there, I'm like, so, if you could just tap out, I'm going to hang out here.
VeVe: Pins match would be good!
Kinzie: Yeah. But a lot of submissions are not my strength, so actually being on the offensive and attacking is where I think I need to put a lot more of my focus.
VeVe: Michi, what about you? What do you want your next area of focus to be?
Michi: What she said. She actually hit every point on the nail. I wish I knew more submission moves, but it's not as --
Kinzie: So what you're saying is we shouldn't wrestle each other because we'd just roll around forever --
Michi: Yeah, but I think it'd be fun because you're squirmy, I'm squirmy, so who's gonna out squirm each other. [all laugh]
VeVe: We also have this style called catball, that's all squirming. You'd do really well. There are like no submissions in it.
Keri: I'm gonna actually have to go.
VeVe: Yes, we are 4:45. This is the official end of the webcast. Thank you, Keri.
Keri: It was really great meeting you guys. I so look forward to seeing your match. I wish you both the best of luck. You guys are awesome. And I hope that you are in the industry for a really long time. You're beautiful, and thanks for talking with me.
Cat & Kinzie: Thanks Keri!
Keri: VeVe, kiss my ass.
All: Bye Keri!
[Keri & Michi sign off]
VeVe: So, we said good bye to Keri. We're still here for another minute. Would you like to make any closing comments? Wait, I have one extra question I wanted to ask. We've had such a happy, upbeat thing, but I did my foreboding "Newcomers' Experience" at the beginning. So, I wanna ask, was there anything that was scary for you about jumping into this? A lot of people, you know, don't just show up and wrestle with strangers, like, hey, I can do this. Amazingly enough, not everybody does this. Was there any thing you had to overcome to getting yourselves out and doing this?
Kinzie: I think, for especially for the videos, for me it was a lot of: "But I'm not the best, who's gonna film me? I'm not the best yet." And not knowing a lot of specific techniques, I was really intimidated, and then I started doing it, and I was, like, oh yeah, I can do this. But I think that was my biggest fear and struggle going into it.
Cat: For me it was about really rolling with people and wrestling people who are trying to hurt me. Because, for most of the time, prior to this experience, I was just hanging out with friends, rolling around, rough and tumble struggle play, and that's fun, you know, there's a lot of giggling going on, some hurting, but it's not that bad. But coming on to the scene, where people are really putting armbars on you, and you're really injured, injuries are no joke. Like I had a really bad muscle injury in my back just from doing some simple rolls in training, nothing specific, nothing really strenuous. The fear of getting hurt, really hurt, was a little initially concerning, but then you see that, ok, you get hurt, you recover, it's a lot of fun, I'm still happy. Then, once I get over it, I get over that. But, you know, honestly, I still have that fear.
VeVe: That's a fear that will keep you safe, though.
Kinzie: You're allowed to be afraid of that.
VeVe: One of the scariest things is to roll with someone who doesn't know when to tap themselves. Who's like too stubborn. So, be a little afraid, and at the same time,be a good partner. So that both you and the other person are happy afterwards. Ok, we're gonna bring it to a close, cause you guys are gonna fight, so, any closing comments from you both?
Cat: [to Kinzie] Watch out for my breasts. I'm gonna put them right in your face. I'm gonna try. We'll see what happens.
Kinzie: You were talking about framing [shows forearm]. Not as pointy as Aralia,
Cat: All right. I'm watching out for that.
VeVe: All right, I think they're raring to go. We are ready to see not just some talking action, but some fighting action, so we're gonna bring this webcast to a close and hit the mats. Thanks everyone for joining us. Thank you both, and belatedly Keri and Michi for joining us. And we'll see you later [all waving].